GTO stood for lots of things, including: Girls Together Outrageously, Girls Together Occasionally, Girls Together Only, and Girls Together Often.

Frank Zappa is widely believed to have created the GTOs as an experiment, like a joke band. They played live with the Mothers of Invention, and some famous muso-style musicians played backing music for them.

Membership of the group varied, but mainly consisted of Miss Christine, Miss Pamela (Des Barres), Suzi Cream Cheese, and Miss Lucy. There were others too: Miss Mercy, Sparky, Cinderella, Miss Sandra.

They didn't play their own instruments, they took a lot of drugs and they had a lot of sex. They were girl freaks who liked the company of other girl freaks. They knew Tiny Tim. Some of them were ex-juvenile delinquents. Some of them were street kids. Miss Christine ODed and died at the Modern Lovers' house in Cohasset, Massachusetts in 1972.

Their only album is 'Permanent Damage,' released in 1969, and later reissued in 1989. Simon got a copy, we've been listening to it, and this is what we've been talking about.

Simon: What do you know about The GTOs?

Me: I know that they were a group of groupies formed by Frank Zappa but I don't know if that's really true or not and I think that possibly, having heard their record, there might have been more going on. I don't know who was in them, although I could probably look it up. I think that a couple of quite famous women were probably in them. I feel strangely drawn to them because I think they're fairly hidden from history, possibly because of the sexist music industry and what it thinks of gals making music, and also the fact that they were always seen as Zappa's protegés and never artists in their own right. And they were also a big fat joke. When we heard their music I thought it was excellent in a really cool way, and not a stupid joke at all. That possessive apostrophe in their name really offends me though, didn't anyone ever teach them proper grammar?

I think they were perceived of being a joke, but I think that Zappa sincerely liked them and thought that they could be successful within a very narrow demographic.

What comes across as their personalities?

They're really funny, and smart. That song Rodney, about Rodney Bingenheimer, is hilarious. It's really knowing. They remind me a lot of Ann Magnuson and Bongwater, little snippets of chattery talk plus art-rock style music. They really are girls together outrageously! Listening to them is like being with a group of really naughty gal pals. The other thing is that I can't believe how young they sound. You get the feeling that they're having the time of their lives. I wish they were my mates.

They're like groupie royalty.

I find the whole groupie thing quite difficult because to me it's a pretty sad way of life. Groupie royalty doesn't explain their coolness and fabulousness. I think they are more than groupie royalty.

I think that's the only way the press could explain them because they weren't a proper group and didn't play their own instruments.

But in this day and age the idea of what a proper group is has been exploded.

So they were ahead of their time!

What would you say to them if you met them today?

I'd say: "God what a shame that you were part of those times and so pushed aside, and so fucked up, but your music lives on." And they probably know that too.

I imagine they're like Cyrinda Foxe type people, but from a slightly earlier period. The thing about the GTOs is that they're totally West Coast and totally LA. If they were on the East Coast it would have been completely different. If they had been there they would probably have been Max's Kansas City type people, part of the Warhol crowd. They would have probably got a bit further for a bit longer.

I'm really intrigued by these people, who are legendary pop cultural icons, but who are so hidden from history. Or people who only ever have one thing written about them, like The GTOs were always Frank Zappa's joke band. It's the same with people in clubland. You can be really infamous on or central to the scene but you disappear if nothing is ever documented about you, or if you do things that aren't tangible or archived. It's the curse of people who embrace wildness, they have no time or inclination to document their stuff. It's the job of the nerds to record it.

On another tangent, I'm completely obsessed with Cyrinda Foxe. That shot of her in the Jean Genie video, where she's dancing in the background, it's so amazing, she's so beautiful. I love those pictures of her with David Johanson, they look like twins. They really haunt me.